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Cake day: June 30th, 2025

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  • Okay modern China I get, but the USSR? You don’t think the USSR were a socialist republic at any point? What kind of communist even are you?

    You argue the Culture are communist but the compact isn’t based on a monopoly of violence yet I am sure if you tried to use violence that the Minds didn’t agree with they would have you stopped in short order. Don’t they have something called a slap drone in the culture for people who do things that are unpopular? Since they don’t have laws it’s not like you get a court trial even. I would argue it’s worse than the Affini which at least pretends to have procedures and rules. Minds can basically do whatever they want provided the other Minds approve.


  • Yes they are an imperialist empire. I never said otherwise. What I was saying is they are not fascist nor are they capitalist. They aren’t necessarily feudalist either.

    As for political rights: you have as much political freedom as you do in current “democracies”. Which is to say as an individual you can’t change much at all. Take the USA for example, individuals don’t choose the laws they live under, states can make some laws but are limited in their power and self-governence. If a state tried to leave they probably wouldn’t be allowed to and it would probably lead to civil war and them being recaptured. That’s basically what the Terran Protectorate is in the Affini compact. It’s a state in the larger compact with limited self-governance. Terrans can vote in larger elections in the larger Affini compact much like they can vote for things in the Terran protectorate. Arguably they are more free under the compact than they were in the Terran accord or current day society as the Affini compact does not have rich oligarchs who control everything. Means of production are owned by both Affini and independents.

    Forcing other states to become their vassels is definitely an imperialist thing to do, but in this case it doesn’t really remove the rights of the individuals only the rights of governments. I think that’s an important thing to understand.

    I would argue that the possibility of forced Domestication as well as all the psychic manipulation is the real serious issue with the compact in terms of freedom. The privileges afforded to only Affini such as the ability to take florets are another serious issue. You could very well call those things abuse. In terms of government and economics they are pretty free by comparison.



  • Independent xenosophonts do have political rights and means of production are collectively owned and managed. It’s only florets that don’t have political rights. In some cases florets have say over means of production as well, at least the ones that actually do any production as many don’t work at all. Affini can also be florets. Again I don’t think you have actually read that much HDG. You could argue that florets are an underclass. However most florets are also volunteers and have some very explicit rights in the story. In fact Affini are bound by those rights to look after florets more than they look after independents or each other. I really don’t think you can compare the Affini to Israel who are doing a genocide given the Affini avoid killing at all costs and respect local languages and even traditions provided they aren’t harmful.

    Yes the Affini compact would not at all work in real life and anyone who tried it would end up committing some form of abuse. I am not trying to argue it’s realism here. You are however completely and seemingly deliberately ignoring what it actually is and how it’s described by the various authors.


  • They literally do not have money in the compact. The work in the compact is done by the same people who control and own the means of production. Namely the Affini do most of the work and the Affini own most of the production. There are some xenosophonts who produce, and they control that production in some cases. I am not sure you have actually read much HDG at all.



  • There are stories in HDG written from an Affini perspective. There are stories of very imperfect Affini as well, including those who get forcibly domesticated for their own good or to prevent harm to others. In real life the politics of the Affini compact probably wouldn’t hold up, but given these things are genetically engineered aliens with different drives to humans it’s hard to really know.


  • That can’t be right. I know there some are HDG stories that deal with politics. No Gods No Masters would be an example, though they deal more with human politics than Affini politics. Maybe Sui Generis or Affini Domestication Guide? The latter being one of the few that deals directly with Affini getting domesticated.


  • Are you sure? They definitely could be seen as an empire, but I don’t know about fascist. They economically speaking have communism in the compact. In fact they appropriate all the billionaires toys and redistribute as needed.

    People I think are forgetting that slavery and fascism aren’t the same thing. Not even close. It’s also not the case that this is traditional slavery, they don’t take florets for economic reasons and most are volunteers.