I don’t know what that is supposed to mean. In the Canadian medical system consent to save an unconscious person’s life is pretty automatic.

We’re talking about consent to opt in to be born, which is completely different.

Yeah I just don’t think having a kid under the premise “well you can kill yourself later” is a really great argument. And they’re not really letting us kill ourselves humanely anyway - Medical Assistance in Dying laws are still incredibly restrictive and they actively prosecute people who sell alternatives.

Just because I find joy in life I can’t force that on other people. We all have different perspectives.

I look at it like joy is not guaranteed. The only thing that is guaranteed through life is suffering and death.

I don’t need to have kids for survival and we have too many people already. Why guarantee suffering in another person.

Oh my heavens no it’s not the only reason not to have kids and it’s not even factor #1 for me as a reason to not. Just one factor among many.

But this part of the thread started with a claim, as I understood it, that population growth wasn’t the problem - that the problem was instead capitalistic exploitation.

I’m just pointing out that limiting one could solve the other. Because I don’t think the oligarchs who rule the world will ever let us protest/unrest in a meaningful way again. People are kept just comfortable enough with fast food, Starbucks, entertainment, etc and just tired enough from selling labour that the vast majority of people wouldn’t care or engage with any sort of meaningful reform to the system.

We can’t even get people to engage in not electing King Fascist (US) and far-right populist Milhouse (Canada). For what reason??? Our other alternatives are middling, one is too old and in Canada I think they’re just tired of the tone and the tone deafness of our current guy. Seems like pretty lame excuses peddled by media that is owned by the very same oligarchs who stand to benefit the most from far right governments. The recent news in the UK and France makes it sting a little less, I guess.

How bad are we prepared to let things get? It’s gonna have to get pretty ugly at a local level for any meaningful change to happen.

I’m being a little snide but yeah supply and demand right? If the population reduces it impacts the demand for products and also the supply of workers.

Capitalists aren’t going to stop ruining the earth out of the goodness of their hearts or anything.

More like yes those are the problems and children are not the answer to those problems.

The capitalists would extract less if they had fewer workers and not as many people to sell stuff to.

So the answer boils down to kill yourself when you turn 18 bud? That seems like incredibly callous and unnecessary pain for all involved.

Consent 101: If you’re unsure about whether or not someone would consent, the answer is no. And since we can’t ask the unborn, people who don’t want kids assume the answer is no.

I’d say you can find things that make life worth living if you’re already here. But if someone’s not “here”, why drag someone you’re supposed to love the most into this mess when we can’t even properly look after the children that are already here.

I’m not anti-child - I’d consider adopting if it didn’t cost like $20k. I’m anti-new child for myself, and yeah I get sad when I see other people have kids, especially now. It’s like having another kid when you lived in the middle of the dust bowl and people were actively dying from starvation and the dust. Probably not the best time to have kids, similar to now. They just couldn’t easily make the choice to not have kids back then.

There are tons of arguments in favour of having kids like what if they cure cancer etc.

However, for myself, I truly believe there will be an ecological collapse due to climate change if not during my lifetime, in the immediate next generation. And we’re still not doing enough. I don’t want to flee natural disasters with a child in tow. One of best things you can do for the climate is not have kids. I’m privileged enough to make that choice so I did, but it’s not my only reason. You got late stage capitalism and the accelerating concentration of resources with the hyper wealthy, war / nuclear war, and the fact that pregnancy is one of most risky things I can medically do. Social media, the toxic drug supply, the rise of fascism (again), microplastics in literally fucking everything. I don’t even think we’ll have social healthcare or social security in Canada by the time I die because they’re gutting our programs so badly.

I get that people have a strong reaction to their choices being called immoral. Morality looks different for everyone. However, the counterargument of “Well I have children and they’re great and bring me so much joy etc” falls on deaf ears, because it truly does not sound like joy to me and when I say I am anti-child for myself I am telling you that. It’s like trying to convince someone skydiving is the greatest thing - some people love it, but not my cup of tea. It is so foreign to me that whenever I hear parents say this it feels like they are trying to convince themselves that they made the right choice.

Ah fair enough. If you’re walking around and like the film “Your Name” you should go check out the stairs at Suga Shrine.

How long are you there? It’s a shame to only stay in Tokyo tbh

I’m a Reddit refugee who met my future husband on Reddit 13 years ago. It feels weird to be leaving.