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BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone to 196@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish · 1 year ago

Antinatalism Rule

lemmy.blahaj.zone

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Antinatalism Rule

lemmy.blahaj.zone

BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone to 196@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish · 1 year ago
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  • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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    1 year ago

    What’s consent to a being that doesn’t exist?

    • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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      1 year ago

      Nothing, unless they start existing.

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        So, how does the concept make any sense? Can I get consent from an angel, too?

        • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          I’m not sure what your point is here

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            1 year ago

            My point is that the whole premise of “consent for existing” is bogus.

            • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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              1 year ago

              And how does that relate to angels?

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                1 year ago

                They don’t exist either.

                • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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                  1 year ago

                  We agree there

    • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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      1 year ago

      When you force it into existence, literally everything

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        I fail to see how the mere concept makes sense right now. That’s the same flawed logic as longtermists use.

        • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          If my understanding of longtermism is correct, it’s more of a function of utilitarianism. If one wants to do the most good for the most people, then it makes some amount of sense to focus on the far future where presumably there will be more people. Their consent is irrelevant, which is kind of the opposite of what I’m saying, which is that consent is relevant.

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            1 year ago

            It’s the other side of the same coin. They both argue about the well-being/bad-being of hypothetical humans. It’s bogus, either way.

            • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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              1 year ago

              They are not related because you have to exist to experience well-being or “bad-being”. What I’m talking about is consenting to exist.

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                1 year ago

                Longtermists try to justify their actions by invoking potential, future generations. Those don’t exist either.

                • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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                  1 year ago

                  They’re presuming that people will exist, which is not a wild assumption

                  But that’s not a philosophy I particularly subscribe to so I don’t feel compelled to explain or defend it further.

            • F04118F@feddit.nl
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              1 year ago

              I think you make a great point. Have you read about the problems with “person-affecting views”? It’s admittedly a bit harder to grasp, but doesn’t seem less problematic to me.

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                1 year ago

                Nope

                • F04118F@feddit.nl
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                  1 year ago

                  Highly recommend. It’s easy to dismiss as weird bullshit initially but enlightening when you put in the effort to understand.

                  To be clear, I am no longer strongly convinced of or against person affecting views and take both seriously.

                  This is a good starting point:

                  https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/c6ZYCpq2L46AxSJNy/my-favourite-arguments-against-person-affecting-views

                  • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                    1 year ago

                    I would prefer not to

                    • Slavoy Zizek

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