196 had extreme crossover with the vaush sub, I think mods too? Either way I got banned for shittalking NATO there over 3 years ago and haven’t bothered to check in since.
I didn’t participate in 196 when I was on Reddit. And I’ve just now learned about Vaush. For what it’s worth, I haven’t seen him mentioned on this 196.
Although I’m pro-NATO. I’ve no way to know how representative that stance is of the general user base of this instance. But I’m of the opinion that it’s a common position.
I really don’t understand how someone can come the conclusion that NATO is a good thing? :/ They’ve carried out some absolutely awful military operations that have taken many lives. They are not, in any way, a “defensive alliance” and have never acted like one. Like, the bare minimum that I ask is “Russia and NATO are both bad” (and thats not even wrong, its just said in bad faith sometimes). But outright saying NATO is good? :/
“The west” as a whole does not have a right to defend itself. “The west” is not a nation. Considering it one has white supremacist vibes, I’m sure from your other posts that you don’t intend them, but the implications are there.
You have been lied to about Yugoslavia. In fact, the bombing of Yugoslavia would have been one of the atrocities I brought up, considering the 500 civilian deaths and 6000 civilian wounded that resulted from it. At the very least, while there may have been a genocide going on there, NATO’s goals were not to stop it. It was an excuse to enforce further western hegemony over the region. I Unfortunately I am not prepared with sources on that issue so I hope someone else in this thread will come through with some for you. I always forget to bookmark sources even though I know I’ll need them later. You’ll just hopefully trust me that I have read stuff about this before. I just forgot to save it.
Lastly, its stated goals mean nothing to me when they supported the invasion of Afghanistan (as just one example). Was that a defensive war?
“The west” as a whole does not have a right to defend itself. “The west” is not a nation. Considering it one has white supremacist vibes, I’m sure from your other posts that you don’t intend them, but the implications are there.
We have the collective right to defend ourselves. Individually any one European nation would be hard pressed to defend against Russia on its own. I don’t see how self defense gives off white supremacy vibes. NATO existing as a defensive alliance doesn’t prevent anyone else from doing the same thing.
Bookmarking stuff can get quickly out of hand. If you find it later post it here I guess. I think we are going to have agree to disagree. There was genocide happening in Yugoslavia. NATO intervened to stop it. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Lastly, its stated goals mean nothing to me when they supported the invasion of Afghanistan (as just one example). Was that a defensive war?
The Taliban harbored al-Qaeda which used Afghanistan as its base of operations when it coordinate the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks. So yes.
The NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was hardly to prevent a genocide unless you believe the US suddenly started caring about Muslim life - and then went on to maraud across the middle east leaving a trail of bodies in its wake.
There’s documented accounts of displaced Romani having to pretend to be Kosavar Albanians because there was zero humanitarian aid available for people not of the chosen ethnic group of the day.
One of the most interesting facets of the NATO air campaign is how they managed to demolish all the state owned factories and infrastructure, but leave the ones owned by westerners.
There’s also another issue with what NATO did to Serbia - Kosovo voted to unilaterally secede. I can think of at least one other prominent example where another territory did just that and it is seen as totally illegitimate by basically everyone in the west. Which is it?
The Taliban harbored al-Qaeda which used Afghanistan as its base of operations when it coordinate the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks. So yes.
The US was their first backers, getting 9/11’d was just blowback for shitty decisions made decades ago, and murdering a bunch of Afghanis and Iraqis was hardly defensive. We totally had troops guarding poppy fields and oil derricks for like 2 decades after as a part of that “defensive” operation.
The NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was hardly to prevent a genocide
NATO values human life, including muslim people. I won’t deny conservatives in western countries tend to be anti-muslim. I’m going to evaluate Yugoslavia on it’s own context and not based on wars in the Middle East.
One of the most interesting facets of the NATO air campaign is how they managed to demolish all the state owned factories and infrastructure, but leave the ones owned by westerners.
This sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
There’s also another issue with what NATO did to Serbia - Kosovo voted to unilaterally secede. I can think of at least one other prominent example where another territory did just that and it is seen as totally illegitimate by basically everyone in the west. Which is it?
Oh, if you mean the Donbas region, those elections were a sham. It’s best not to believe Russian propaganda.
The US was their first backers, getting 9/11’d was just blowback for shitty decisions made decades ago, and murdering a bunch of Afghanis and Iraqis was hardly defensive. We totally had troops guarding poppy fields and oil derricks for like 2 decades after as a part of that “defensive” operation.
We were attacked by state sponsored terror. The war in Afghanistan was defensive. Iraq not so much, like there were never weapons of mass destruction.
The confederation of Trade Unions of Serbia produced a list of 164 factories destroyed by the bombings, all of them were state owned. Not a single foreign-owned firm was targeted.
What’s really wild is how the geniuses at NATO managed to drop 5 JDAMs on the chinese embassy in belgrade,“why does nobody like us”
our glorious free democratic elections
their sham elections
You’re a fucking parody lmao
We were attacked by state sponsored terror.
Literally all of Americas victims can say the exact same thing
196 had extreme crossover with the vaush sub, I think mods too? Either way I got banned for shittalking NATO there over 3 years ago and haven’t bothered to check in since.
Are you talking about this guy?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/vaush
I didn’t participate in 196 when I was on Reddit. And I’ve just now learned about Vaush. For what it’s worth, I haven’t seen him mentioned on this 196.
Although I’m pro-NATO. I’ve no way to know how representative that stance is of the general user base of this instance. But I’m of the opinion that it’s a common position.
I really don’t understand how someone can come the conclusion that NATO is a good thing? :/ They’ve carried out some absolutely awful military operations that have taken many lives. They are not, in any way, a “defensive alliance” and have never acted like one. Like, the bare minimum that I ask is “Russia and NATO are both bad” (and thats not even wrong, its just said in bad faith sometimes). But outright saying NATO is good? :/
The West has the right to defend itself. As does everyone.
NATO has intervened to stop genocide.
NATO is in fact a defensive alliance. Here is article 5.
“The west” as a whole does not have a right to defend itself. “The west” is not a nation. Considering it one has white supremacist vibes, I’m sure from your other posts that you don’t intend them, but the implications are there.
You have been lied to about Yugoslavia. In fact, the bombing of Yugoslavia would have been one of the atrocities I brought up, considering the 500 civilian deaths and 6000 civilian wounded that resulted from it. At the very least, while there may have been a genocide going on there, NATO’s goals were not to stop it. It was an excuse to enforce further western hegemony over the region. I Unfortunately I am not prepared with sources on that issue so I hope someone else in this thread will come through with some for you. I always forget to bookmark sources even though I know I’ll need them later. You’ll just hopefully trust me that I have read stuff about this before. I just forgot to save it.
Lastly, its stated goals mean nothing to me when they supported the invasion of Afghanistan (as just one example). Was that a defensive war?
We have the collective right to defend ourselves. Individually any one European nation would be hard pressed to defend against Russia on its own. I don’t see how self defense gives off white supremacy vibes. NATO existing as a defensive alliance doesn’t prevent anyone else from doing the same thing.
Bookmarking stuff can get quickly out of hand. If you find it later post it here I guess. I think we are going to have agree to disagree. There was genocide happening in Yugoslavia. NATO intervened to stop it. Not everything is a conspiracy.
The Taliban harbored al-Qaeda which used Afghanistan as its base of operations when it coordinate the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks. So yes.
The NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was hardly to prevent a genocide unless you believe the US suddenly started caring about Muslim life - and then went on to maraud across the middle east leaving a trail of bodies in its wake.
There’s documented accounts of displaced Romani having to pretend to be Kosavar Albanians because there was zero humanitarian aid available for people not of the chosen ethnic group of the day.
One of the most interesting facets of the NATO air campaign is how they managed to demolish all the state owned factories and infrastructure, but leave the ones owned by westerners.
There’s also another issue with what NATO did to Serbia - Kosovo voted to unilaterally secede. I can think of at least one other prominent example where another territory did just that and it is seen as totally illegitimate by basically everyone in the west. Which is it?
The US was their first backers, getting 9/11’d was just blowback for shitty decisions made decades ago, and murdering a bunch of Afghanis and Iraqis was hardly defensive. We totally had troops guarding poppy fields and oil derricks for like 2 decades after as a part of that “defensive” operation.
This sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
Oh, if you mean the Donbas region, those elections were a sham. It’s best not to believe Russian propaganda.
We were attacked by state sponsored terror. The war in Afghanistan was defensive. Iraq not so much, like there were never weapons of mass destruction.
quoting Parenti here:
What’s really wild is how the geniuses at NATO managed to drop 5 JDAMs on the chinese embassy in belgrade,“why does nobody like us”
You’re a fucking parody lmao
Literally all of Americas victims can say the exact same thing