I want to switch from android phone to linux and i want to know which phone is closest to daily driver. I only need call sms and bluetooth to work and battery should last 1 day. also working map camera and web browser app would be great. for os i have thinked to use ubuntu touch or postmarket os. Phones what i have most interested Volla phone Pixel 3a Fairphone 4 Pinephone or pinephone pro Any thoughts or ideas
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PinePhone, PinePhone Pro and Librem 5 should have the best GNU/Linux or postmarketOS support, but their SoCs are not be as fast and energy efficient as other modern phones. You can check my short PinePhone review and there is also some information in this thread. PinePhone’s battery will last a day only if you don’t use the phone much.
for os i have thinked to use ubuntu touch or postmarket os
Note that postmarketOS is not GNU/Linux, since it’s based on Alpine and Ubuntu Touch is GNU/Android or something like that, since it uses the Android kernel. The most popular GNU/Linux distros are Mobian and Manjaro.
Ubuntu Touch uses Linux Kernel and minimal android system
Ah, I see. So I guess we should call it Android/Linux?
Or as I recently began calling it GNU slash Linux PLUS Android
Xperia 10 III with Sailfish OS.
Sailfish OS
That’s proprietary.
Parts of it. The UI.
That doesn’t change much. It’s an operating system you can’t control.
That’s nonsense. The closed sourced bits are mostly in qml afaik anyways.
If you can’t modify the software, then you don’t control it. If you can’t audit what it does, it can be spyware. You need the 4 essential freedoms.
Go to sleep
It’s crazy to see someone here defending proprietary software. But I guess you are just trolling.
I wonder about this too. And instead of a secondary, backup android, can’t we just emulate andoid in a vm/container under linux? Sounds crazy, but it isn’t really.
I present to you https://waydro.id/
Works pretty well, but I’ve had issues with user input (touch screen) that made it not viable for my purposes (using Signal)
You are literally talking about sailfish os at this point. (what they do isnt exclusive to them)
Someone make a Framework laptop phone ;P
MNT Reform has some interesting innovations as well.
But purely phone the problem is computing power typically.
If you can get a small enough screen say 6-7" you could always do a m.2 modem or just forego traditional for VOIP, Chatty has SIP plumbed in.
I think we should really just can the love affair with “phones”
You now have a Star Trek “Communicator” thing in your pocket. That does many communication apps, video, audio, text.
Seeing the small form factor handheld game consoles gives me hope a SFF Linux Phone Mod is close to come.
Its probably already doable if any of them can have the controller wings removed.
What would be the advantage over PinePhone or Librem 5?
Opinion Disclaimer.
PinePhone (at least v1) is no longer maintained in Mobian due to changes in tech. It was a great Dev device for it’s time. The camera was terrible and it was awfly slow which isn’t a surprise at its humble $200-400 price.
The device is a SBC Single Board Computer meaning the modem is soldered on the same silicon as the CPU, RAM, Storage, etc…
All Cellular modems are made by 2 international companies last I checked who all have blobs in their modems – this is bad because it means open source can’t have a fair shot at competing when you need their “blessing” to use the Cellular Internet.
Librem 5 is better in some areas worse in others. The modem is a m.2. This allows the Mainboard to cut power to the modem as desired. The modem can’t be entirely turned off in other phones and as they are on the same SBC there is speculation secret commands could be used for data extraction or to activate spyware in cellphones as was recently discovered with Android and iOS. Separating the m.2 isolates the abilities of the modem module as a “firewall” being the closest comparison.
Librem 5 is also slow. The camera is better than PP. It can do phone and SMS okay but loading a webpage on it is not fun. Both devices have hotswap batteries so to speak so the charge is a nominal issue for me.
PPP is supposedly more battery intensive but manufactured in Hong Kong, which has been absorbed into China. For this reason the tech world is not as fond of their PPP as their initial PP before China absorbed them. Considering the last 4 years people are no longer “fond”.
Something newer than PP or L5 is needed. Something that can do basic tasks without binary blobs wrecking The FOSS Dream.
Framework is a little big but if you see what modders have done it is a good candidate.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/handheld-gaming-pc-created-using-framework-laptop-components
Having the ability to add mics with physical kill switches and cameras with kill switches or being omitted entirely in my opinion would be optimal.
Not just having a " mute" button in the same way that when you press mute on zoom or “camera off” if the application has access to audio and video it can still capture all that audio and video when users think they are not being watched.
MNT uses RISCV and ARM SBC IIRC and modularizes a small form factor SFF device and maybe someday will rise to the occasion, or what I mean is modders have a better shot with that kind of thing.
Moving out of the Cellular space away from Phone numbers and to Element, or SIP or VOIP just makes sense for communications. It “cuts the cord” of the ATT / Bell monopoly that has plagued humans for decades.
Eventually we will see “phones” move away from cellular to satellite. This may be the jump we need to break free of all this blob nonsense cock blocking Linux.
There isn’t a optimal answer just yet, like do I build a phone out of a RPI5? when RPI5 and ARMs in general have blobs.
I think major headway has been made in the software front thanks to KDE, Gnome, Purism, Mobian, PostmarketOS and others.
I think the death grip is nearly over as more SFF production capabilities are commonplace now.
A winner hasn’t really been declared, hell a Steam Deck could even be modded (x86 too) to run off the shelf Linux tech and the OS could be on MicroSD and the modem could theoretically be in the m.2 slot. Purism does sell the modems for $50 on their store.
Anyways, there are more questions than answers, at least in the present tense – Who Will Deliver? Could this be the year of the Linux Phone? Maybe for some.
PinePhone (at least v1) is no longer maintained in Mobian due to changes in tech.
The original PinePhone is still maintained. I don’t know for how long, though.
The device is a SBC Single Board Computer meaning the modem is soldered on the same silicon as the CPU, RAM, Storage, etc…
I’m not sure what you mean, since PinePhone’s and Librem 5’s modem is not integrated into the SoC. It’s a separate chip connected through USB.
Librem 5 is better in some areas worse in others. The modem is a m.2. This allows the Mainboard to cut power to the modem as desired. The modem can’t be entirely turned off in other phones and as they are on the same SBC
PinePhone also has a killswitch to power off the modem. I think the only difference between them is that Librem 5’s modem is removable and PinePhone’s modem is soldered onto the board.
there is speculation secret commands could be used for data extraction or to activate spyware in cellphones as was recently discovered with Android and iOS. Separating the m.2 isolates the abilities of the modem module as a “firewall” being the closest comparison.
Android phones have some modem isolation too, but I don’t know much about it.
PPP is supposedly more battery intensive but manufactured in Hong Kong, which has been absorbed into China. For this reason the tech world is not as fond of their PPP as their initial PP before China absorbed them. Considering the last 4 years people are no longer “fond”.
I haven’t heard of that, but I’m pretty sure Librem 5 is manufactured in China too, just like most phones.
Something newer than PP or L5 is needed. Something that can do basic tasks without binary blobs wrecking The FOSS Dream.
Binary blobs are fine as long as they are not present in the operating system or executed by the main CPU. At least that’s the Free Software Foundation’s opinion until we can do something about it. This is where Librem 5 does better than PinePhone.
Framework is a little big but if you see what modders have done it is a good candidate.
It has a x86 CPU, so it probably requires proprietary BIOS. I assume you will also need to install proprietary firmware in your OS to get working WiFi. So I don’t know if it’s an improvement over GNU/Linux phones. It’s probably not very energy efficient either.
Having the ability to add mics with physical kill switches and cameras with kill switches or being omitted entirely in my opinion would be optimal.
PinePhone and Librem 5 have killswitches for the cameras and the microphone.
Moving out of the Cellular space away from Phone numbers and to Element, or SIP or VOIP just makes sense for communications. It “cuts the cord” of the ATT / Bell monopoly that has plagued humans for decades.
Phone calls are not end-to-end encrypted, so they suck. But to use Matrix you will need to use the internet. So you still need a modem probably. If not, you can just disable it with a killswitch.
Eventually we will see “phones” move away from cellular to satellite. This may be the jump we need to break free of all this blob nonsense cock blocking Linux.
I think the main problem is lack of SoCs that have good mainline Linux kernel support. Removing the modem won’t solve it and you will still need proprietary firmware for WiFi and Bluetooth, which sucks.
There isn’t a optimal answer just yet, like do I build a phone out of a RPI5? when RPI5 and ARMs in general have blobs.
Yeah, it has the same problem.
A winner hasn’t really been declared, hell a Steam Deck could even be modded (x86 too) to run off the shelf Linux tech and the OS could be on MicroSD and the modem could theoretically be in the m.2 slot. Purism does sell the modems for $50 on their store.
Oh, that’s interesting. It probably still has blobs, though. And if you want to use WiFi, it probably requires proprietary firmware installed in your OS.
Librem 5 is probably the best in terms of software freedom. I think it doesn’t require any proprietary firmware in the operating system, because it was moved to separate chips. But I think binary blobs are still executed during boot, which is why they didn’t manage to get the RYF certificate from the FSF.
Yeah man, I think the article I initially read about PP Mobian situation was this one here just for reference if I am even remembering right – https://blog.mobian-project.org/posts/2023/09/30/paperweight-dilemma/
I forgot about the toggles under the PP cover, I didn’t know they acted as hardware kill switches like L5? Interesting for sure
Yes most SFF tech is still China, maybe someday we’ll have more diversification. It’ll have to do for now.
x86 is a power suck but I still think it’s a interesting use case as it delivers on webpage rendering and demanding tasks. Ideally I would imagine RISCV would be the golden standard.
I guess if I wanted to be puritan maybe starting with a Librem Mini with Secure boot might make a good frankenstein phone.
I won’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good until we are in a position to be choosers, until then its pretty much a community effort to get the whole thing off the ground.
BeepBerry was a really interesting concept but lacked the sophistication needed to take off.
I could see a new iteration gaining ground
Yeah man, I think the article I initially read about PP Mobian situation was this one here just for reference if I am even remembering right – https://blog.mobian-project.org/posts/2023/09/30/paperweight-dilemma/
Someone stepped up (see https://blog.mobian.org/posts/2024/01/08/highlights-of-2023/ and afaik a-wai also mentioned this at fosdem (https://fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3290-towards-a-bright-future-with-mobian-/), also long standing issues like the out-of-tree-WiFi/BT driver are being worked on currently.
I forgot about the toggles under the PP cover, I didn’t know they acted as hardware kill switches like L5? Interesting for sure
Yeah, they have the same purpose. They are just a little less convenient to use.
x86 is a power suck but I still think it’s a interesting use case as it delivers on webpage rendering and demanding tasks. Ideally I would imagine RISCV would be the golden standard.
I think the power efficiency of x86 is getting better lately, but still not good enough.
I guess if I wanted to be puritan maybe starting with a Librem Mini with Secure boot might make a good frankenstein phone.
It would probably be pretty big and power hungry. It seems that it uses Coreboot, which contains proprietary blobs. Most x86 devices need those.
I won’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good until we are in a position to be choosers, until then its pretty much a community effort to get the whole thing off the ground.
I hope some next phone will get a RYF certificate from the Free Software Foundation. That’s already a pretty high standard.
BeepBerry was a really interesting concept but lacked the sophistication needed to take off.
I could see a new iteration gaining ground
I haven’t heard of it before, but I doubt that Raspberry PI can be the solution. Does it even run a mainline Linux kernel?
