Being inebriated around dozens to hundreds of strangers who themselves are consuming mind altering substances isn’t exactly a safe situation. Take the fun of it being a party away from it and just zoom out with that context. Nobody has their full faculties.
I’ll pile on with there is no defense of predators, but you can make choices about the environment that you put yourself in and the state that you are in when you go there.
I’m a dude and I wouldn’t feel safe going to a party naked, drunk or not.
I’m also not prone to going to house parties, or getting drunk/doing drugs, so I might be an outlier here.
To be blunt, unless you’re in a context where it’s normalized, being naked in any situation is probably an unsafe activity, regardless of gender, or the environment.
The obvious exceptions here being private or secured spaces, including bathrooms, changing rooms/locker rooms, and other public facilities like showers and such. Any medical situation. Also, any nudist areas… Probably more that I’m not thinking about.
Just because, as a man, I’m not as likely to be raped, doesn’t mean it can’t happen, or even that it’s unlikely to happen. I have no doubt that every community including the LGBTQIA+ communities, have some rapists in their ranks. Not many, surely, but not zero either. So there’s a nontrivial chance of me, as a guy, going to a house party drunk, doing drugs, then getting raped, either by a man, or a woman.
This is a human problem.
At the same time, I recognize that women are raped in far higher numbers than men, or at least that’s what the statistics show, so there’s extra risk there based on the statistics alone.
That doesn’t make it safe for a dude to go and do the same thing.
I think the “human problem” is another problem entirely, and imo handwaves the fact that there is one very specific gendered dynamic where this is a problem, to the point where we in the comments are going like “well obviously there are going to be some rapists in mixed company, and given the opportunity to rape…”
That is rape culture right up in here, and there are things we can do to mitigate it.
It’s like both cars and cyclists can injure pedestrians but there are reasons why one of these is much more prevalent. Bad analogy but hopefully you can look past it to see my point.
I’m not denying, nor am I trying to deny that the scales are not balanced in terms of perpetrators and victims of rape.
Nor do I mean to say, nor imply, that there are not groups of rapists, and people who are okay with them, or support them.
I also equally recognise that the number of people in those groups is relatively small in comparison to the overall population.
That doesn’t and shouldn’t imply that I don’t think something should be done.
The problem is anyone who is complacent with the act, who perpetrates the act, anyone who covers up the act, and any judge, jury, or court, that would deny someone justice in the face of evidence of the act, even if that evidence is simply the victims side of the story.
I also think anyone using an accusation of rape to smear someone or get them in trouble, when no crime has been committed, should be severely punished for creating a false report.
In my opinion, everyone should be doing everything to find, report, and/or otherwise stop rapists at all times, in every circumstance. It should be the duty of every individual in society to put these people in jail, or stop them by whatever means are necessary. To me, the only ones that are not committed to this, are rapists, sympathisers, or enablers, all of which should be given the same punishment.
It’s not up to me to say what that punishment should be. That’s up to society. I am not a rapist, nor am I a victim, so I have no basis to judge what a fair punishment should be, nor do I have any stake in making that punishment any less severe than what the victims need that would best help with their recovery from such a trauma.
I also think anyone using an accusation of rape to smear someone or get them in trouble, when no crime has been committed, should be severely punished for creating a false report.
You just had to elevate false reports to the same level as actual rape, didn’t you?
The obvious exceptions here being private or secured spaces, including bathrooms, changing rooms/locker rooms, and other public facilities like showers and such. Any medical situation. Also, any nudist areas
Those are dangerous for women, too.
You’re missing the point that even naked and doing drugs, no one should be raped. It’s not an invitation.
The danger comes from others willing to take advantage of someone in that situation, not the situation itself.
When we talk about sexual violence, the focus too often falls on what survivors did, where they were, or whether they reported. But rape happens because someone chooses to violate another person’s consent.
According to FBI crime data, an average of 107,418 U.S. men are the perpetrators of reported rape each year.
Each year, an average of 5,510 female perpetrators are reported for rape, according to law enforcement reporting.
I don’t see how I’m diminishing the facts about rape at all. It’s a horrendous crime that shouldn’t happen.
But if you wish to keep babbling to yourself about it for some unknown goal, have at it.
I think you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that rape isn’t a big deal, or anyone who doesn’t think that is a bad thing… Apart from rapists I guess…
So I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here? You seem to be lost in the midst of about 13 different conversations about this and I think you’ve lost the plot.
I think you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that rape isn’t a big deal, or anyone who doesn’t think that is a bad thing… Apart from rapists I guess…
Keep pretending rape culture doesn’t exist, I guess.
The point continues to be missed: why is it unsafe?
No one disputes that that situation is unsafe. People are saying that it’s unsafe because of rapists. Pointing out that you shouldn’t do unsafe things is asinine when the point being made is that people shouldn’t act in a fashion that makes them a danger to others.
Ignoring that the hazard is due to the choices of live humans with agency and entirely placing the agency on the victim is the crux of the problem.
Flip it around: you shouldn’t be inebriated in a situation where there are hundreds of people you can hurt.
The victim has no control over where the hazard goes. The rapist chooses where it’s dangerous for the victim to be. Big party? Dangerous if there’s a rapist there. Intimate gathering of friends? Dangerous if one of them is a rapist.
Rapists are not lightning. They don’t randomly strike in hazardous situations beyond anyone’s control where the best advice is “don’t stand under a big tree or you might get raped by lightning”.
They’re humans committing a crime against another person.
Being inebriated around dozens to hundreds of strangers who themselves are consuming mind altering substances isn’t exactly a safe situation. Take the fun of it being a party away from it and just zoom out with that context. Nobody has their full faculties.
I’ll pile on with there is no defense of predators, but you can make choices about the environment that you put yourself in and the state that you are in when you go there.
Can a man go to a party naked and drunk without it being unsafe? Mostly yes? Then it seems to be a problem with rape culture, doesn’t it.
Consent is consent is consent. And if men respected consent, we wouldn’t need to have this conversation at all.
I’m a dude and I wouldn’t feel safe going to a party naked, drunk or not.
I’m also not prone to going to house parties, or getting drunk/doing drugs, so I might be an outlier here.
To be blunt, unless you’re in a context where it’s normalized, being naked in any situation is probably an unsafe activity, regardless of gender, or the environment. The obvious exceptions here being private or secured spaces, including bathrooms, changing rooms/locker rooms, and other public facilities like showers and such. Any medical situation. Also, any nudist areas… Probably more that I’m not thinking about.
Just because, as a man, I’m not as likely to be raped, doesn’t mean it can’t happen, or even that it’s unlikely to happen. I have no doubt that every community including the LGBTQIA+ communities, have some rapists in their ranks. Not many, surely, but not zero either. So there’s a nontrivial chance of me, as a guy, going to a house party drunk, doing drugs, then getting raped, either by a man, or a woman.
This is a human problem.
At the same time, I recognize that women are raped in far higher numbers than men, or at least that’s what the statistics show, so there’s extra risk there based on the statistics alone. That doesn’t make it safe for a dude to go and do the same thing.
I think the “human problem” is another problem entirely, and imo handwaves the fact that there is one very specific gendered dynamic where this is a problem, to the point where we in the comments are going like “well obviously there are going to be some rapists in mixed company, and given the opportunity to rape…”
That is rape culture right up in here, and there are things we can do to mitigate it.
It’s like both cars and cyclists can injure pedestrians but there are reasons why one of these is much more prevalent. Bad analogy but hopefully you can look past it to see my point.
I like you, you can come to my house parties.
I’m not denying, nor am I trying to deny that the scales are not balanced in terms of perpetrators and victims of rape.
Nor do I mean to say, nor imply, that there are not groups of rapists, and people who are okay with them, or support them.
I also equally recognise that the number of people in those groups is relatively small in comparison to the overall population.
That doesn’t and shouldn’t imply that I don’t think something should be done.
The problem is anyone who is complacent with the act, who perpetrates the act, anyone who covers up the act, and any judge, jury, or court, that would deny someone justice in the face of evidence of the act, even if that evidence is simply the victims side of the story.
I also think anyone using an accusation of rape to smear someone or get them in trouble, when no crime has been committed, should be severely punished for creating a false report.
In my opinion, everyone should be doing everything to find, report, and/or otherwise stop rapists at all times, in every circumstance. It should be the duty of every individual in society to put these people in jail, or stop them by whatever means are necessary. To me, the only ones that are not committed to this, are rapists, sympathisers, or enablers, all of which should be given the same punishment.
It’s not up to me to say what that punishment should be. That’s up to society. I am not a rapist, nor am I a victim, so I have no basis to judge what a fair punishment should be, nor do I have any stake in making that punishment any less severe than what the victims need that would best help with their recovery from such a trauma.
You just had to elevate false reports to the same level as actual rape, didn’t you?
Jesus Christ.
Those are dangerous for women, too.
You’re missing the point that even naked and doing drugs, no one should be raped. It’s not an invitation.
The danger comes from others willing to take advantage of someone in that situation, not the situation itself.
You and I agree, as far as I can tell.
I think we both disagree with this statement (which spurred my comment):
The answer is no. This isn’t really a gender problem. It’s a rape problem. Just don’t fucking rape people.
Please stop diminishing the facts about rape.
You’re getting caught up in the nitty gritty details of the meme scenario without looking at the big picture.
Yes, men and women are raped. It does no good to pretend like they’re being raped in a vacuum by some faceless entity we can’t identify.
You seem very much like a troll.
I don’t see how I’m diminishing the facts about rape at all. It’s a horrendous crime that shouldn’t happen.
But if you wish to keep babbling to yourself about it for some unknown goal, have at it.
I think you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that rape isn’t a big deal, or anyone who doesn’t think that is a bad thing… Apart from rapists I guess…
So I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here? You seem to be lost in the midst of about 13 different conversations about this and I think you’ve lost the plot.
Keep pretending rape culture doesn’t exist, I guess.
Removed by mod
There are ways to create safe communities without police.
I’m a man and no, I would not feel safe arriving at a part drunk & naked & doing drugs.
The point continues to be missed: why is it unsafe?
No one disputes that that situation is unsafe. People are saying that it’s unsafe because of rapists. Pointing out that you shouldn’t do unsafe things is asinine when the point being made is that people shouldn’t act in a fashion that makes them a danger to others.
Ignoring that the hazard is due to the choices of live humans with agency and entirely placing the agency on the victim is the crux of the problem.
Flip it around: you shouldn’t be inebriated in a situation where there are hundreds of people you can hurt.
The victim has no control over where the hazard goes. The rapist chooses where it’s dangerous for the victim to be. Big party? Dangerous if there’s a rapist there. Intimate gathering of friends? Dangerous if one of them is a rapist.
Rapists are not lightning. They don’t randomly strike in hazardous situations beyond anyone’s control where the best advice is “don’t stand under a big tree or you might get raped by lightning”.
They’re humans committing a crime against another person.