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Genocide Joe? The US isn’t committing genocide, it isn’t even a proxy war. It completely adds a level of responsibility on Biden that isn’t his to bare. I’m not saying he has none, but that’s farcical.
The US has an outsized influence on Israel. The US bankrolls Israel, and provides weapons. The US provides $4 billion annually for Israel to buy weapons, guaranteed cash for the military. The US is the main trading partner with Israel and provides loans with really low rates. US firms open factories in Israel (like Intel) via direct subsidies to boost the Israel economy. Edit: this was just ran today https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/06/israel-weapons-sales-loophole
The US is clearly in a proxy war with many factions in the Middle East via Israel, as the US props up and enables Israel. The US literally was in a proxy war with the Soviet Union when Israel and Egypt were duking it out. Israel being the US’s proxy in the Middle East did not end just because the Soviet Union ended.
The US (and Biden) has major responsibility, is directly linked, and could exercise a lot of the influence the US pays for to halt the genocide of the Palestinians.
Yeah, I know all that stuff. Ally ≠ genocide by America and half that shit you said isn’t even relevant. USSR proxy war? And? Israel was a weapons supplier and mule for the US’s. So was Egypt. What are you on about?
Still, some responsibility, yeah.
It’s funny that leftists call him genocide joe when Trump would be actively worse and offer additional manpower.
Complain and downvote how you like, but consider which candidate you actually have a chance of getting to agree to your point of view.
No shit, Biden is a genocidal asshole but at least he’s not trump that’s the whole point of the uncommitted campaign
Tankies are only aesthetically left
Just because trump is an infinitely low bar doesn’t mean Biden isn’t actively supporting genocide.
I’m sick of seeing “But Trump is worse!!!1!” whenever there is a discussion of how fucking terrible Biden can be, especially on his candid genocide support. And the cries from the Democratic party to fall in line behind a president that is failing to support the will of the people in that party is a bit shitty, even though it is inevitable in such a hierarchical power structure.
Like, the problem isn’t “who would support genocide less” it is “why the fuck is the president supporting genocide” and the other question we should be asking is “what is causing us to be in the position that we are debating on who is the lesser evil pro genocide candidate”
Also, I’d like to point out that biden is a hardcore zionist. He will never not be a hardcore zionist. He will never be convinced to stop supporting israel, and we will lucky to even convince him to stop supporting israel until the genocide stops. Or to just call for a ceasefire now.
First pass the post says a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump. Sadly that’s how the system works. You need preferential voting to send a message of displeasure.
girl u may have missed that this was for the primaries, not the general election
So this will stop and everyone will rally behind Biden after the primaries? I hope so. This one issue is horrific, and I wish there was a reasonable 'no genocide; option. There really isn’t though. And the sense I get lately is more ‘don’t vote Biden’ generically, without acknowledging the impact this could have once we’re through the primaries.
This type of vote will not be called for in the general because in the general, even if Biden does not change his stance on ending the Palestinian genocide, because the fascist republican alternative is worse.
Anyone who is calling for “don’t vote Biden” in the general election is a fascist. You can disregard them as they’re very likely just Russian bots trying to sow discontent.
I see many people who keep commenting here are not in tune with the “uncommitted vote” campaign because no major news org has really covered it. They don’t cover it because it is to end the Palestinian genocide and major news orgs have held a pro-Zionist line the entire time (e.g., there was a 400,000+ anti-genocide-in-Palestine march in DC maybe a month ago, and no news orgs covered it in any meaningful way (AP had coverage downplaying it the day before and none the day of) or at all (NYT did not cover it).). This is to once more try to enact the end of a US-funded genocide via the will of the voters in a safe way, as Biden is guaranteed to win the primary.
I’ll hardcore pass on voting for a treasonous bastard. I’m already amazed that we didn’t nuke the fucking planet when trump was in office. I’m not giving him a second chance.
Same. I’m not going to vote for an christofascist cunt who wants to take my rights as a queer person, or the rights of the people I care about.
I’m simply sick of the “BuT TrUmp!!!1” that is always shouted whenever people criticize biden. Every president is a war criminal. Biden deserves his criticism, even though trump is also culpable.
100% criticize away! I’m just getting annoyed by seeing all of the “don’t vote Biden” bullshit lately.
Imo an acceptable alternative is “remember to vote for the lesser evil!”
Or even my favorite, “write your congresspersons to stop the genocide!”
What’s with all the tankies recently? If they wanted to change things for the better they would organize and vote for biden, even if he sucks. The organizing is the important part anyways, voting is just damage control.
EDIT: In case it was unclear, I do not mean organize to vote for biden.
EDIT: I am an idiot. This is a primary. Don’t vote for biden if there is a better candidate.
People are organizing the uncommitted campaign to get Biden to stop giving billions to support an active genocide
Uncommitted campaign is just a vote for Fuckface 45 in a trenchcoat.
Fuckface 45 is not running in the Democratic primary.
But he’s going to win via the Spoiler Effect if people keep this third party shit up.
A vote against Biden is a vote for Fuckface 45.
Until we get rid of First Past the Post voting, at least.
the meme is about a primary election in which Democrats are running against Democrats. no one partaking in this movement is planning to vote 3rd party. you are making uninformed statements, shadow boxing with a situation that doesn’t exist.
And you honestly don’t believe people aren’t going to keep this mentality up in November?
the biden administration is currently complicit in genocide. maybe if it wants to survive it should consider not being complicit in genocide. 🐛
Double negative there with the don’t aren’t, but to answer your question we believe that the people voting in DNC Primaries are going to vote DNC in the general. Anybody who doesn’t probably isn’t informed enough to be a part of the noncommitted movement to begin with.
I think most people here are all for that, but if Trump is president, it’s going to get so much worse.
Voting in a two party system is a raw deal, but it’s the only deal we have.
“Tankie” is when you don’t vote for a candidate who supports genocide.
The state of the online “tankie” discourse has never been worse.
They has a hammer and sickle in their username, a symbol most socialists have abandoned because of tankies.
socialists have not abandoned the most universally recognized leftist symbol lmao
I personally prefer the socialist rose over the hammer and sickle and the red star, however. Those sorts of symbols, to me at least, evoke the very agrarian-centric revolutions we associate with communism/socialism that came with the side effect of purging intellectuals (as in the USSR, DPRK, PRC, DK/Cambodia etc).
dude that’s literally not true plspls do the smallest of google searches before you post
Aw sweet, republican astroturfing post!
You do not understand the US primary system.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
The uncommitted vote in the 2nd term incumbent US Democrat primary, which this me-me depicts, is a safe way to draw attention to the significant need for the US to exercise its power and end the genocide. Biden is not running against anyone with credible support, he will sweep the nomination guaranteed as he is a popular president.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
you don’t think calling the man desperately attempting to pull israel back Genocide Joe is gop astroturfing?
like you can assemble an entire argument about the primary process but ignore that aspect?
goddamn that’s a useful idiot
You’ve pasted this exact response under no less than 7 comments.
I do not have the time to type new forms of the same info for everyone who wanders into 196 that are clearly ignorant of how the US primary system works, what the uncommitted vote symbolically means, and why people are so adamant for the end of the Palestinian genocide.
People calling this me-me tankie, anti-American, anti-democracy, so many things. This is just a me-me that riffs on the uncommitted vote movement and was made by someone who STRONGLY feels the genocide needs to end (because thousands and thousands of civilians have already been killed) and they feel so strongly they typed “Genocide Joe”.
There are ways to stop a genocide that isn’t to use a far fetched implied self harm or threat to elect a clinically insane criminal due to fumbling a plant strategy to dismantle the only threat to said criminal
Anyone that throws around “Genocide Joe” is a fascist that’s trying to undermine the actual presidental election.
GenocideJoe is the fascist enabling the mass slaughter of Palestinian children.
can we stop calling people who do the bare minimum to criticize the incumbent president fascist?
go ahead, tell them you disagree. explain your position and reasoning. i get it, you are afraid of the farther reaching effects of such messaging.
but please also get it through your head that there is a genocide happening, and some people happen to be taking that seriously. people are fucking dying. stop with the name calling and gross stereotyping.
A non-vote for Biden is essentially a vote for Trump. Simple as that
This is messed up, and I am very confused
I told myself I wasn’t going to get wrapped up in any fights over this conflict when it started because no one will ever back down, and I’ve already gone too far. See it as a cop-out if you like, that’s fine, but I cannot continue one way or the other.
My stance on this conflict is:
“I’m German. I’m gonna sit my ass down and shut the fuck up before I accuse Jews of genocide.”
Is this a grandparent forward?
I can’t even tell anymore whether this meme is pro-Democrat or pro-Republican, anti-American, anti-Semitic, post-ironic or just cursed.
You do not understand the US primary system.
This me-me is anti-genocide. How could it be anti-Semitic? Anti-American? Insane you could reach for those.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
The uncommitted vote in the 2nd term incumbent US Democrat primary, which this me-me depicts, is a safe way to draw attention to the significant need for the US to exercise its power and end the genocide. Biden is not running against anyone with credible support, he will sweep the nomination guaranteed as he is a popular president.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
How could it be anti-Semitic? Anti-American?
If I were a Russian propagandist tasked with eroding support for Biden and reducing US influence in the middle east, this wouldn’t be a bad meme to post.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general.
oh yah after labeling him Genocide Joe there’s no call to bahahaahaha
did your parents drop you on your head?
The Uncommitted Movement’s goal to get high uncommitted voter turnout in the primary so that Joe Biden changes his outdated views on Palestine and Israel is great.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren’t going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary
Telling people Biden is Genocide Joe isn’t a nuanced position. People who think Joe Biden equals genocide aren’t voting for him now and aren’t voting for him later. An argument that ignores the inherent cognitive dissidence it would take for someone, who believes Joe Biden is directly the cause of Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, to vote for Joe Biden is disingenuous.
Truth is, I’m likely going to end up voting for Biden in the fall, because for all his faults, he is infinitely better than Trump. But I want him to fucking sweat in the meantime. Because if he sweats, if he realizes he can’t simply take the votes from the left for granted even as he gives nothing to us, maybe he’ll fucking start giving something to us.
I have no illusions that he’ll do the right thing out of the goodness of his heart, but perhaps he’ll do the right thing out of fear of losing.
It’s just a shame we can’t make him sweat without making the millions who’ll be totally fucked if he loses sweat too.
God I wish there was room for an actual threat from the left instead of “well I guess we’ll make everyone who isn’t wearing a maga hat worry about whether they’ll be up against a wall by 2028”
It’s not a nuanced position, there is genocide of the Palestinian people occurring in Gaza literally right now. They’re actually dying and the US props up the country doing it, it’s clear Biden could and can do much more to stop the genocide. So some people call him “Genocide Joe”, people are being murdered, I assume they think something so striking is fitting. Whole families have been wiped off the face of the earth, some people get radicalized by that I am sure.
Now people who do think he is “Genocide Joe” will not vote for the other guy https://web.archive.org/web/20240306112504/https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905 . Argument is bunk, hell the fascist guy said he’d support completing the genocide completely while Biden holds a line of “secretly I want it to stop” which is “vaguely” better. And if they don’t vote for either because of support for the genocide on both sides, they are not people who care about the country and definitely don’t have well constructed opinions on anything else. (e.g., couldn’t rely on them for a Dem vote if no genocide occurring)
So this argument is just wrong. The crap some Dems wish for, that people shouldn’t protest Biden’s policies at all or else all will fall is inherently flawed - the US democracy is built on free speech and advocating for change. And when a people are being genocided by a US proxy, many think it is worth it to rock the boat in a safe way.
So this argument is just wrong. The crap some Dems wish for, that people shouldn’t protest Biden’s policies at all or else all will fall is inherently flawed - the US democracy is built on free speech and advocating for change. And when a people are being genocided by a US proxy, many think it is worth it to rock the boat in a safe way.
I fundamentally agree that we should rock the boat and get Biden to change his policies. What I don’t agree with is calling Biden, Genocide Joe.
it’s clear Biden could and can do much more to stop the genocide
I also fundamentally agree with this. This is the nuance. Biden has the ability to stop this conflict right now. So we need to pressure him to make that happen. As soon as possible, I should add. I have no doubt Israel’s current fascist government will make good on it’s threats to attack Rafah at the start of Ramadan. That’s the 11th of this month, next Monday afternoon. This is all completely lost with the Genocide Joe nickname.
And if they don’t vote for either because of support for the genocide on both sides, they are not people who care about the country and definitely don’t have well constructed opinions on anything else. (e.g., couldn’t rely on them for a Dem vote if no genocide occurring)
They might reasonably think they shouldn’t vote for either candidate, even when they need to be voting for the lesser evil. It’s considerably harder to make that distinction when one candidate is Donald Trump and the other is Genocide Joe. We should be making the distinction between the candidates as clear as possible. The last thing I want to here on and after election day this November is that people couldn’t tell the difference between Gush and Bore.
I’m not out to plaster Biden as “Genocide Joe” personally. But I would like him to use his influence to at least genuinely try to end the genocide so no one wants to call him that. At least Trump just said he would “finish the problem”, makes it clear he won’t be better for whoever is single-issue on the Palestinian genocide
We do need unity, I will scream for eternity if Biden loses. I want the genocide stopped so that we can concentrate on preventing the fall of the US. People are dying in droves and it needs to stop, so protest. But again, I will implode if Biden loses. So I do understand why so many people are against the protest because it breaks unity, and I understand why people are so worried. We in the US are facing the end with a single election, it’s grim
How about Genocidal GOP or Genocidal 45
Language and words have great power. Walking around attaching the word genocide to a man who has at worse not done enough in a very complex situation will cause great harm to the electorate. You may be propping up the uncommitted vote, but not everyone will understand that, many may just see the genocide and not vote for Biden ever or worse vote for the orange idiot.
Meanwhile you have politicians who will kill Americans with their policies. And you have a potential future president who would put boots on the ground in Gaza and do just about whatever they could to see Ukraine returned to Russia.
Words have power. A simple phrase will stick more than the meaning behind it. There is a reason crooked Hilary worked so well, and no one can tell you why she might be crooked beyond her emails and Benghazi. Even then they only know those words, they don’t know the meaning behind them. We need all of the votes we can get in November.
i mean i guess?
counterpoint: “sleepy joe” was around long before the 2019 general election and the dude still got into office. and that was a powerful phrase too.
i’m not down with what your argument boils down to, that we shouldn’t criticize politicians because it risks elections. this is a GENOCIDE happening. it’s not like this name came up for funsies. america has long been in the business of funding attrocities, and i have no shame in calling on Biden to change that.
The difficulty, in this particular case, is that the alternative is a President who will even more aggressively support Israel’s genocide.
Like, I get it. The idea of voting for a party and a president that are actively supporting genocide feels morally reprehensible.
But the alternative will, without question, be so much worse. At least the Democrats can, to some degree, be pressured on this issue. Trump will take the opportunity to murder Brown people and gleefully run with it to the ends of the earth, and along the way he’ll burn down what’s left of American democracy just for good measure.
This is, quite literally, the trolley problem. You either have to be actively complicit in some amount of horror, or a passive bystander to an even greater atrocity, placating yourself with the knowledge that while more people have died as a direct result of your choices, at least it wasn’t your hand on the trigger.
There is no good option here, and there is no morally clean option here. It’s awful, it fucking sucks, it’s not a choice anyone should ever be forced to make. But for every American, it’s the choice in front of them now.
i guess the trolley problem rang true for others here so i won’t dig on that too hard, but it’s not really the trolley problem at all because it’s not a binary choice.
one of those third choices being exactly the topic of this post, wherein voters have used the primary as a way to make their positions heard. will it work? who knows, but at least the uncommited movement are making a choice such that their votes are in no way passive complicity.
No, it’s a still a binary choice in the end. Whatever people do before election day or after it, on election day their choices will be “Vote for the less bad genocide enabler” or “Vote in a way that ultimate helps the much worse genocide enabler gain power” (and that includes not voting).
None of which means that people should stop putting pressure on Biden’s government to end the genocide. Part of the argument for why Biden is the less bad choice is precisely that it is more likely that he can be affected by public pressure on this issue. So yes, absolutely, apply that pressure. But be careful how you do it, because the danger, as others have pointed out in this thread, is that once you create this mini-avalanche of “Genocide Joe” negative publicity around Biden, you won’t be able to stop it before November.
I don’t know where the line is there. It’s a very difficult path to tread correctly.
Sure it’s a binary choice “in the end” but I have never been discussing “in the end”. I and OP are looking at the primaries. Now.
The primaries are an example of voters getting the opportunity to untie as many people from the less populous track as possible. Then, down the line, they get the choice to flip the switch or not.
Limiting your mindset to in the end statements is doomerism. I don’t disagree with any of your statements but you’re just looking at things from a perspective I don’t find altogether useful.
And what happens if, as a direct result of the way this campaign was conducted during the primaries, Biden ends up losing? (say, because the GOP somehow latch onto this Genocide Joe thing and turn into a Swiftboat that drags his whole campaign down just enough for Trump to squeak a win).
In that hypothetical scenario would you feel that the right choices were made?
See, no matter which way you come at this, in the end you’re still stuck in the trolley problem.
The point is, if you’re not considering these actions now in the context of what impact they might potentially have when you get to that in the end point, then you’re driving at night without the lights on.
That’s not me saying “Don’t do it.” That’s me saying “Think very carefully about how you do it.”
