Heavens no, absolutely not. Maybe in a meeting where everyone is introducing themselves, people might be asked to say their preferred pronouns with the rest of their introduction. Like hi my name is infinitesunrise, I’m the facility’s sex technician, I hail from west bumblefuck and my pronouns are he/him. In my free time I grow weed, play with my cat, and draw smut.
I’m in the US and I’ve never encountered this. Some people put them in their email signatures which is fine and has actually been useful a couple times with names that were unclear to me. Mostly we’re just trying to get the meeting over as fast as possible so we can get back to doing actual work. If someone did do this I’d never show up to their meeting on time again, same as I do for people I know are doing icebreakers.
Some people put them in their email signatures which is fine and has actually been useful a couple times with names that were unclear to me.
This is me. I’m a cis man, he/him, but I have a gender neutral name. For some reason everyone in email has always assumed that I’m a woman. So when pronoun discourse started being more common, I was like great, awesome, and started putting he/him in my email signature. Solved that problem. Now everyone thinks I’m a trans man, because “why would a cis person put pronouns in their email signature?” Progress!!
in the little place in europe i live in, it is very common for political and queer groups as part of name rounds. the reason for it is the same as for the name round: so you know how to refer to the people in the round.
it’s not just done the first time but at the start of every meeting, so people got a nice chance to update everyone smoothly about name or pronoun changes without having to like do some big comming out. it’s really nice
it’s not common outside those spaces but mainly cause it’s a more new thing and society is really cis binary normative so most people just expect to be able to guess everyones pronouns correctly (they are not)
That’s… Not how second person works, grammatically speaking. “Officer” would be the addressee, so you should be using third person pronouns to refer to “the one that did”
Also, to answer your question, people do use pronoun circles. Every adult should be experienced enough to change their perception of other people’s gender at will, so pronoun circles are a chance to make sure you’re perceiving other people correctly.
Isn’t it an incredibly hostile experience, a bunch of strangers looking at you, expecting you to perform your pronoun dance for them?
It doesn’t seem… welcoming.
Maybe I’m way off base here, but every version I can imagine seems like true nightmare fuel, at least to my introverted ass.
It’s just introducing yourself… Like, it’s as simple as “Hey, I’m Squirrelanna and I go by she/her or it/its. Both equally fine. Nice to be here,” and moving on. I’m an introvert to and it’s really not anymore hostile than the essential concept of standing up and identifying yourself.
This comic is deliberately emphasising the bad parts of pronouns circles as an example of what not to do. You’re not supposed to interrogate people or debate with them about their pronouns. Decent people don’t act that way.
But there are problems with them that trans people have pointed out. Like, if you’re closeted, then you have to choose between outing or misgendering yourself. That’s what’s happening to Blue, who’s not ready to come out yet.
We don’t necessarily have a great solution for that one. The best we can do is make it optional to give your pronouns. But then closeted people who don’t give their pronouns can be perceived as transphobic chuds.
Like, if you’re closeted, then you have to choose between outing or misgendering yourself.
Isn’t that always true? Even if you remain silent on the matter, other people will then have to ask for your pronouns or possibly misgender you by assuming them.
Pain carries more weight when it’s caused by self harm than when it’s caused by other harm. And it carries more weight when it’s deliberate than when it’s accidental. So, accidentally being misgendered by someone else feels better than deliberately misgendering yourself.
usually its a social situation where a bunch of strangers are interacting for the first time so most people dont know each other yet. you give your name, you give your pronouns, maybe you say another thing about yourself prompted by whoever organized the event. its a way to introduce everyone quickly and it happens in a lot of different situations. but yeah its kind of uncomfortable if youre introverted or have social anxiety.
Giving your pronouns along with your name (and any other additional information) as part of a normal introduction isn’t what’s depicted in the comic’s pronoun-circle though. We see everyone just sit down to shout out (and start to argue about) just their hex-codes/pronouns.
Also, I have a hard time interpreting the arguments of #LEG3ND. #LEG3ND points to the visually green appearance of the other figure in defense of their self-identification of a less-matching green hex-code, and opposing the suggestion of the closer-matching hex-code. I would normally understand that interpreting someone’s external appearance instead of just trusting their stated pronouns or gender would be a bad thing, but here #LEG3ND’s (seemingly inaccurate?) interpretation of appearance is given as the more favorable supporting point? The comic seems to use non-primary colors as an analogy for untraditional/neo pronouns or non-binary genders/identities. But then #LEG3ND unapologetically gives a “hex-code” that is not only outside the range of primary colors (or something like standard named html colors), but actually incompatible with the format of hex codes entirely, and refuses to clarify at all, which seems equivalent to something like responding with a set of pronouns that is not usable in standard English (eg a list of 5). So then is the comic then, through its protagonist, deriding the answering with intelligible pronouns at all? Given context, that doesn’t seem the intended effect, but understanding what the author actually intended to convey about real-world pronouns or genders without substantially assuming their analogies seems impossible unless there’s some cultural references I’m missing.
Green identifies as green, and looks green, and gave everyone a green hex code. The correct thing to do would have been to accept that Green is green. Instead, one of the greyscales suggested that Green use a less saturated hexcode, and tried to frame it as inclusivity.
This is the equivalent of hearing a trans woman say she uses she/her and telling her to use they/she. They’re saying “You don’t have to be binary, we’re accepting” to a person who is binary, and wants to be accepted as binary.
Legend saw all this go down, and concluded that the greyscales in this group are assholes. Legend doesn’t believe in letting the laws of computer science decide their identity for them. And when the greyscales start telling them to let the laws of computer science decide their identity for them, they decide not to take the bait. They’re not going to argue about the validity of their identity, because these assholes aren’t worth that effort. They’re never going to accept Legend, so it’s pointless to try and explain.
The rules of grammar, like the rules of computer science, were made up by people. They can be changed by people. My pronouns break the rules of English grammar, and I don’t care. I’m like Legend.
so the grayscale assholes in this comic are nonbinary they/them people who in some nonbinary normativity insist that everyone wants to use they/them pronouns, no binary pronouns, no neo-pronouns?
im not gonna say that this couldnt happen but this seems like a very unusual scenario to me, even if it were a specifically nonbinar group meeting. it seems so far removed from any experience i had
In this world, gender isn’t about body shape and pronouns. It’s about colours and hex codes. The dipshits are cischromatic greyscales. Green, Blue, and Legend are transchromatic. Green is an out primary colour. Blue is a closeted primary colour. Legend is an out teriary neohex-using colour.
Think of greyscales as cis, primaries as binary trans, secondaries as nonbinary androgynous, tertiaries as nonbinary xenogender, hex codes as pronouns, and impossible hexes as neopronouns, especially neogrammatical pronouns.
Also, it’s not relevant to this particular comic, but Unwanted Purple Syndrome is an intersex condition.
Do people outside the U.S. really do pronoun circles? I’m trying to understand what the point of them is.
When you are talking to people the pronouns are always you/yours. When talking about people…. Well don’t talk about people if you don’t know them.
Heavens no, absolutely not. Maybe in a meeting where everyone is introducing themselves, people might be asked to say their preferred pronouns with the rest of their introduction. Like hi my name is infinitesunrise, I’m the facility’s sex technician, I hail from west bumblefuck and my pronouns are he/him. In my free time I grow weed, play with my cat, and draw smut.
I’m in the US and I’ve never encountered this. Some people put them in their email signatures which is fine and has actually been useful a couple times with names that were unclear to me. Mostly we’re just trying to get the meeting over as fast as possible so we can get back to doing actual work. If someone did do this I’d never show up to their meeting on time again, same as I do for people I know are doing icebreakers.
This is me. I’m a cis man, he/him, but I have a gender neutral name. For some reason everyone in email has always assumed that I’m a woman. So when pronoun discourse started being more common, I was like great, awesome, and started putting he/him in my email signature. Solved that problem. Now everyone thinks I’m a trans man, because “why would a cis person put pronouns in their email signature?” Progress!!
That’s all it takes to be an ally most days. Thanks for that 😊👍
Common in my circles any time you are also sharing names in a circle
in the little place in europe i live in, it is very common for political and queer groups as part of name rounds. the reason for it is the same as for the name round: so you know how to refer to the people in the round.
it’s not just done the first time but at the start of every meeting, so people got a nice chance to update everyone smoothly about name or pronoun changes without having to like do some big comming out. it’s really nice
it’s not common outside those spaces but mainly cause it’s a more new thing and society is really cis binary normative so most people just expect to be able to guess everyones pronouns correctly (they are not)
I’ve never encountered such a thing in the US. Closest might be name tags with space for pronouns on them.
Actually, My second person pronouns are You/Yours, with a capital letter.
Yes, officer! That’s Yours, over there! You’s the one that did! You was all by Yourself in that corner!
That’s… Not how second person works, grammatically speaking. “Officer” would be the addressee, so you should be using third person pronouns to refer to “the one that did”
no, me do pronoun grammer gooder
My third person pronouns are She/They/It, with a capital letter.
You’s on first
You’re the second person to have said that.
They’re the third-person now
They did them in my LGBT+ youth group in the UK
Also, to answer your question, people do use pronoun circles. Every adult should be experienced enough to change their perception of other people’s gender at will, so pronoun circles are a chance to make sure you’re perceiving other people correctly.
Isn’t it an incredibly hostile experience, a bunch of strangers looking at you, expecting you to perform your pronoun dance for them?
It doesn’t seem… welcoming.
Maybe I’m way off base here, but every version I can imagine seems like true nightmare fuel, at least to my introverted ass.
It’s just introducing yourself… Like, it’s as simple as “Hey, I’m Squirrelanna and I go by she/her or it/its. Both equally fine. Nice to be here,” and moving on. I’m an introvert to and it’s really not anymore hostile than the essential concept of standing up and identifying yourself.
This comic is deliberately emphasising the bad parts of pronouns circles as an example of what not to do. You’re not supposed to interrogate people or debate with them about their pronouns. Decent people don’t act that way.
But there are problems with them that trans people have pointed out. Like, if you’re closeted, then you have to choose between outing or misgendering yourself. That’s what’s happening to Blue, who’s not ready to come out yet.
We don’t necessarily have a great solution for that one. The best we can do is make it optional to give your pronouns. But then closeted people who don’t give their pronouns can be perceived as transphobic chuds.
Isn’t that always true? Even if you remain silent on the matter, other people will then have to ask for your pronouns or possibly misgender you by assuming them.
Pain carries more weight when it’s caused by self harm than when it’s caused by other harm. And it carries more weight when it’s deliberate than when it’s accidental. So, accidentally being misgendered by someone else feels better than deliberately misgendering yourself.
Interesting
usually its a social situation where a bunch of strangers are interacting for the first time so most people dont know each other yet. you give your name, you give your pronouns, maybe you say another thing about yourself prompted by whoever organized the event. its a way to introduce everyone quickly and it happens in a lot of different situations. but yeah its kind of uncomfortable if youre introverted or have social anxiety.
Giving your pronouns along with your name (and any other additional information) as part of a normal introduction isn’t what’s depicted in the comic’s pronoun-circle though. We see everyone just sit down to shout out (and start to argue about) just their hex-codes/pronouns.
Also, I have a hard time interpreting the arguments of #LEG3ND. #LEG3ND points to the visually green appearance of the other figure in defense of their self-identification of a less-matching green hex-code, and opposing the suggestion of the closer-matching hex-code. I would normally understand that interpreting someone’s external appearance instead of just trusting their stated pronouns or gender would be a bad thing, but here #LEG3ND’s (seemingly inaccurate?) interpretation of appearance is given as the more favorable supporting point? The comic seems to use non-primary colors as an analogy for untraditional/neo pronouns or non-binary genders/identities. But then #LEG3ND unapologetically gives a “hex-code” that is not only outside the range of primary colors (or something like standard named html colors), but actually incompatible with the format of hex codes entirely, and refuses to clarify at all, which seems equivalent to something like responding with a set of pronouns that is not usable in standard English (eg a list of 5). So then is the comic then, through its protagonist, deriding the answering with intelligible pronouns at all? Given context, that doesn’t seem the intended effect, but understanding what the author actually intended to convey about real-world pronouns or genders without substantially assuming their analogies seems impossible unless there’s some cultural references I’m missing.
Green identifies as green, and looks green, and gave everyone a green hex code. The correct thing to do would have been to accept that Green is green. Instead, one of the greyscales suggested that Green use a less saturated hexcode, and tried to frame it as inclusivity.
This is the equivalent of hearing a trans woman say she uses she/her and telling her to use they/she. They’re saying “You don’t have to be binary, we’re accepting” to a person who is binary, and wants to be accepted as binary.
Legend saw all this go down, and concluded that the greyscales in this group are assholes. Legend doesn’t believe in letting the laws of computer science decide their identity for them. And when the greyscales start telling them to let the laws of computer science decide their identity for them, they decide not to take the bait. They’re not going to argue about the validity of their identity, because these assholes aren’t worth that effort. They’re never going to accept Legend, so it’s pointless to try and explain.
The rules of grammar, like the rules of computer science, were made up by people. They can be changed by people. My pronouns break the rules of English grammar, and I don’t care. I’m like Legend.
Thank you, that explanation helps me a lot. I certainly agree with that core point.
so the grayscale assholes in this comic are nonbinary they/them people who in some nonbinary normativity insist that everyone wants to use they/them pronouns, no binary pronouns, no neo-pronouns?
im not gonna say that this couldnt happen but this seems like a very unusual scenario to me, even if it were a specifically nonbinar group meeting. it seems so far removed from any experience i had
In this world, gender isn’t about body shape and pronouns. It’s about colours and hex codes. The dipshits are cischromatic greyscales. Green, Blue, and Legend are transchromatic. Green is an out primary colour. Blue is a closeted primary colour. Legend is an out teriary neohex-using colour.
Think of greyscales as cis, primaries as binary trans, secondaries as nonbinary androgynous, tertiaries as nonbinary xenogender, hex codes as pronouns, and impossible hexes as neopronouns, especially neogrammatical pronouns.
Also, it’s not relevant to this particular comic, but Unwanted Purple Syndrome is an intersex condition.
ooh i see. thanky